Відео

"Understanding a complex ban would just be too hard for new players" you think thats hard for a new player look at idk, building a solid team, thats way the fuck harder

A fanmade tiering format should never be "affraid" of following the wishes of its actual playerbase. *if* the gen 3 OU playerbase all desperately wanted to bring down level 82 Kyogre without stab, then that should absolutely be considered. Odds are, if this is something majority of experienced players want to atleast try, that there is a good reason for it. We already have random battles as like the most played format where level balancing is a real thing. But its not at all likely that this would ever be suggested *AND* accepted by the player base of any other tiers. Until such a suggestion exists, its a made up arguement that does nothing other than showing a complete lack of respect for the dedicated playerbase.

Occam's Razor: The simplest explanation is usually the best one. Applied to this: The simplest solution is to change the tiering policy. Unfortunately, the Smogon Council is calculating infinite permutations of "how can we avoid fucking up any further", all while not realizing that by doing so they are fucking up further.

Just on the blaze blaziken point, I actually like it cus endure + salac berry makes it usable and the blaze boost helps a lot It's a gimmick but it's at least something to consider

Literally all this yapping could be solved if they had a separate ladder that was constantly experimenting with suspects. You can now have your meta and throw another one into disarray without it being an issue.

Glad to see finally that people are waking up to how stupid flinchrachi is

Serene Grace + Flinch Moves would actually be a good idea, tbh even Togekiss is annoying with that

The thing about complex bans is that once u open the Pandora box, then where do we draw the limit? If you make a "Iron Head Jirachi" ban then some people wo7ld start saying stuff like "why dont we ban water moves in Kyogre, it would be perfectly fine" And then nothing gets banmed cuz u can just say "oh just ban Swords dance on this mon" I guess thats the type of inconsistency the tiering councils are kinda scared of

I agree

"But banning Gorilla Tactics instead of Darm is just so impossible for casuals to understand!"

Seeing star once again have a bad and awful take at the end of the video doesn’t surprise me. between this and voting to unban sneasler at the beginning of DLC 2 SVOU she hasn’t exactly had a streak of good takes

I’m insanely annoyed learning that the ADV community actually did have the correct answer to deal with ninjask/speedpass but instead were shoehorned into a bad vote via this tiering policy and now we are stuck with best of 1 matchup fishing that isn’t actually good in tournament

the two rejected posts on policy review are this and cloyster ban #nooticing

Stall is something I don’t like in certain forms….one of the worst examples I can think of is Mean Look, Charm Umbreon trapping your Snorlax in Gen2 OU….UGH!! That can be so boring and such a non-winnable matchup usually Another thing I hate (but also love doing haha) is Gen 1 Wrap….i love pulling it off with bullshit like Onix and Arbok, or even legit threats like Dragonite and Victrebell, but my goodness I hate getting caught in it lol

Proposal Why don't they just branch off each tier. DPP ou DPP ou (alternate) This allows the playerbase to play the familiar tier as well as allowing people that want to experiment with the tier to try new possibilities. If there is worry that it will destroy finding opponents... Why is that a worry? People will play the format they want to play. It allows larger testing of changes before implementing into the non alternate tier.

Take a shot every time bkc says CB As someone who has never played older gens hearing how dominant choice band is is quite interesting

I think if DPP was actual modern gen jirachi probably would have been suspected and the suspect would have been close over a year ago. I wish the player base was there to see a post Jirachi meta really develop

I love Smogon Tiering Drama

Still waiting for the day where BKC just says screw it all and makes his own metagame tiering system with blackjack and hookers

this video wasn't very entertained

IMHO the next one should be Reuniclus

41:08 I'm only saying this because I hate how this word is pronounced with a fire. Sadly you pronounce the x in quixotic. Because English is silly

says a lot about BKC's love for mons that hes putting up with all this. super agree on your point about "complex bans potentially scaring off new players" being silly, as most new players in a tier are either going to copy a team they find somewhere anyway. plus, showdown has a "check if team is legal" button that tells you whats allowed in the builder, which shouldnt make this a problem anyway

I hate stall a lot, that's why I always run an antistall mon or core so I instawin against teams I don't want to face

Being adverse to complex bans potentially making it unappealing to new players really doesnt make sense. When someting like gen 5 is at this point I feel like known for being a mess and having a playerbase unable to decide on anything.

peng so based. Also "just adapt" will forever be such a garbage argument. Any format of anything can develop, but the skills valued and the direction of development are what matter in the face of that. We could add guns and legalize murder in basketball and people could "just adapt" as gun usage becomes the predominant overcentralizing force of the new metagame. But that's stupid and compromises all of the established values of basketball, so we ban it. For a less extreme example, if you allow people to hold each other in defense, then the entire game will begin to trend towards valuing players who can hold another player or even players (plural) in place because of how powerful of an option that is. But again, it's not allowed because it compromises the skills we actually care about in basketball. It's insane to me that so many people cannot seem to comprehend this principle and how it applies to the concept of "tier identity". Anyway based video even though it's just another context point for you to make the same points for the 100th time lmao. Maybe this time will be the one (clueless)!

fine tuning for old gens, coarse tuning for new gens!

It’s at times like this when I think I really wish there was an alternative to smogon like how pokemon perfect used to be before it just became an old gen discord tournament server.

I agree with basically everything being said here (albeit I sympathize with the opposition's argument a bit more since, as someone who isn't very involved but familiar with mechanics, I understand what makes complex bans irritating to learn), but the references to the Annihilape suspect always throw me off. Again, not a great player, but I don't understand why it was banned instead of just Rage Fist besides "because policy", and not being able to use one of my favorite pokemon does personally dissuade me from wanting to learn the gen 9 metagame.

I'm not sure where that 'new player' complex ban argument comes from. ADV OU's Baton Pass rule is one of the harder ones to explain but I could understand it pretty easily when I was new to the tier. (This isn't to say I'm smart or anything for it, its to say that new players don't have to have their hands held about complex bans. "X Pokemon cannot use X move" is not hard to understand.)

electrode is so kind ♥️

It seems like after a set amount of years (call it 8? 10?) of a metagame being available they could open it up to more specific tiering action. Ive been sympathetic in the past to the slippery slope arguments about level 80 Kyogre etc but at some point in a metagames life cycle it becomes pretty clear whats good and bad for the tier

Went to play gen4 a month or so ago after taking a multi month hiatus. To see that my favorite team couldn’t load because of a froslass lead was pretty funny. I’ve never seen it’s ability take effect after hundreds of games but black letter law matters more than fun in a competitive children’s game :-)

elodin's post is fantastic because it perfectly encapsulate the bizarre mindset some of these individuals have. instead of addressing the points at hand and focusing on the concrete effects they might have on the tiers in question, they bend over backwards to invent the most unhinged hypothetical for which this might theoretically set a precedent, then use that imaginary tiering decision that nobody would ever actually suggest in real life to terrify themselves into indefinite inaction.

Removing Pursuit in gen 8 was one of the worst mistakes they could have made. If Pursuit was still in the game, Calyrex Shadow-rider wouldn't be so dominant in the meta of gen 8

56:35 He definitely means in terms of activity when he says lower level of play.

Ban Kinjask Calready

Another hour long BigKoreanCock banger 🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️

I feel like stall is hated because people typically can't stand games that last longer than 25 turns. Also, new players don't have the stuff to break through bulkier teams. That being said, I have run stall teams in the past to not only get a good understanding of how they work, but also to see how people react.

So often smogon tiering forgets that they are there to serve the players. I don't care if the tiering looks chaotic or whatever, make the game more fun and stable, that is literally your job. And all they do is say no, at least offer an alternative. How can the tiering system change in a way that gen 5 would consider banning broken stuff or gen 4 with iron head jirachi. I think I speak for most that if these problems were merely hypothetical, we wouldn't mind keeping the current way of tiering. Now you are just ignoring the problems because you don't like the look of the solutions.

I feel like im going insane reading these

"not open for further replies" Idk about you, but I think locking replies alone just ended up fueling the fire.

The shadow cabal strike again

Even in current gens under 200 people participate if marketed correctly by youtubers such as yourself and others like pokeaimmd jimothy cool etc you could get 100 people to qualify for it. take volcarona ban in sv ou 163 eligble to vote give older gens more time and same thing should happen

nice vid

greta video!

If they are so focused on not upsetting the casuals they should just make BSS an official Smogon tier and let OU councils just do what they want. So when a non-player makes a non-argument about how certain specific combination being disallowed is anti-casual then they can just point towards BSS

Man I love complex bans, it's always great to see the motto of "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater", where we crack down on problematic things whislt keeping the healthy things within the metagames! Too bad Smogon's ancient royalty hates the idea of flexibility and actually conversing with their communities :p

Ahh a long BKC video, natural order has been restored

I agree with following these rules as if they are set in stone and just for the ends to follow said rules is super cringy. At that point your end isn’t even the balance and enjoyment of the tier but to uphold the rules as if this is some common law judicial system lol. “Muh precedent” lmao